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  • New Routes and VA profitability

    Thank you to all who worked on making the new routes a reality. The new mountain flying available in the western U.S. is great.

    I do wonder about each flight's profitability and since the only info available seems to be gross rev and fuel cost its hard to tell.

    Would it be correct to say that if you multiplied your pilot pay times the hours flown and added the fuel cost, then subtract that from the gross revenue you could tell how much money you made or lost for the VA?

    If not, how is each flight's profit/loss computed?

    Marty Kovar

  • #2
    As a VA manager I get detailed reports on the VA's finances, believe me the VA makes lots of money, I believe our best month was well over 60 million USD!
    "Remember, when in doubt hold on to your altitude, no one has ever collided with the sky"

    "Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance"

    "Respect the ground, for during the 100 or so years that man has been flying things made of metal going hundreds of miles per hour, and the ground going zero miles per hour, the ground has yet to lose."

    http://www.msflights.net/pilots/phpv...es/MSF0041.png

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8...72947ba2_o.png

    Comment


    • #3
      The costs that are calculated are Pilot Pay, Fuel Costs AND Ticket Cost. The higher the pilot rank is, the more they get paid.
      Here is a breakdown on your a recent flight you did: http://www.msflights.net/pilots/phpv...reps/view/7259

      1. You flew a Duke-B60 that holds 4 passengers so you multiply the ticket price of $ 165.49x4=$661.96 (That's why it's important in kACARS/FsPassengers to select a aircraft with similar Passenger capacity to the aircraft you are flying. Ticket prices are set by the VA for each leg depending on the distance. There is also a minumum price of $50 for short flights I believe.)

      2. Now subtract fuel costs. On that flight you did, you used 281 pounds of fuel. We have fuel prices set at $0.80 per pound. So 281x.80=$224.8 fuel costs. Ticket price of $661.96- Fuel Price of $224.8=$437.16. (This is why it's important to try and fly realistically/economically so you don't burn to much fuel. While we don't penalize people for using to much fuel, records are kept and anyone can view them by clicking the "Pilots" tab, click a pilot ID, then you see a list of all flights that pilot has done and are able to see how much fuel they have used. Down the road we may offer an award for Fuel Efficient pilots.)

      3. Lastly you subtract pilot pay from $437.16. You are a Captain now so you earn $100 per hour. This flight you did lasted for 51 minutes. 51min/60min=.85x100=$85.00 So you earned $85 for your 51 minute flight. (if your flight was 1 hour and 9 minutes you would calculate 69min/60min=1.15x100=$115) To figure out how much the airline made: $437.16-$85=$352.16

      To summarize: Ticket price X Passenger Count - Fuel Costs - Pilot Pay = Airline revenue

      Also you can view detailed VA finances in the Pilot Center. Just click "Pilot Center" on the VA website then click "VA Finances" under the Flight Operations section. There's a drop down menu on the top right where you can look at monthly and yearly reports. http://www.msflights.net/pilots/phpv...x.php/finances

      You can look at your individual reports in the "Pilot Center" if you click on "View my PIREPs".

      You can look at other people's reports by clicking "Pilots" to view the pilot list then clicking on their "Pilot ID".
      Last edited by Kalo; January 7th, 2014, 05:08 PM.

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      • #4
        Thank you Kalo for taking the time to answer all my questions completely. Now I know what to look for and how to check on my own pireps to see how I am doing.

        Hopefully this information will be helpful to others as well.

        Thanks
        Marty Kovar

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kalo View Post
          3. Lastly you subtract pilot pay from $437.16. You are a Captain now so you earn $100 per hour. This flight you did lasted for 51 minutes. $100x0.51=$51 So you earned $51 for your 51 minute flight. (if your flight was 1 hour and 9 minutes you would calculate 1.09x$100) To figure out how much the airline made: $437.16-$51=$386.16
          Um... that math is way off Kalo...$100/hr and you get paid $51... so that's half your pay. See where I'm going? Each minute should be multiplied times 1.66667... so 51 minutes = $85. This is basically the $100 / 60 minutes in an hour to give you a minute rate. If they were paid $80/hr that would be $1.333333/min or $68 for the 51 minute flight.

          With that... WE'VE ALL BEEN CHEATED!!! STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE!
          - Michael
          Check out my cockpit build!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by martypk View Post
            Thank you Kalo for taking the time to answer all my questions completely. Now I know what to look for and how to check on my own pireps to see how I am doing.

            Hopefully this information will be helpful to others as well.

            Thanks
            Marty Kovar
            np, this should be helpful to others as well, I think I'll sticky this thread



            Originally posted by Waterman981 View Post
            Um... that math is way off Kalo...$100/hr and you get paid $51... so that's half your pay. See where I'm going? Each minute should be multiplied times 1.66667... so 51 minutes = $85. This is basically the $100 / 60 minutes in an hour to give you a minute rate. If they were paid $80/hr that would be $1.333333/min or $68 for the 51 minute flight.

            With that... WE'VE ALL BEEN CHEATED!!! STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE!

            LOL good point Waterman. My mistake, I guess the software measures time as .51 of an hour not 51 minutes. It's strange because in the admin panel the flight time is listed as 00:51:00 which looks like 51 minutes but the math works out to ~30 mins pay which makes me think its .51 of an hour. So his flight took about 30 minutes to complete not 51 minutes (does that sound right marty?)....Ill edit step number 3 to reflect these revelations

            Comment


            • #7
              from my initial investigation it seems that kACARS is reporting .51 as 51 minutes, but the airline is calculating it as 30 minutes.

              If anyone wants to help perform a little test for the VA: Pick a short flight (under 1 hour) and use a stop watch to time from when you push "start flight" to the time you hit "stop flight" in kACARS. Record that time then compare it to the time your PIREP says under "View my PIREPS" in the "Pilot Center". Then report back here (I would test this myself but I wont be-able to for a couple days because of my recent windows re-install).

              Comment


              • #8
                Kalo:

                Today I flew flight no. MSF1832 KCEC to KUKI and here are the results:

                Real world time: 53 Minutes (start flight to stop flight)
                kACARS time: 00:52 Note the colon indicating minutes
                The Pirep shows: 00.52 Note the decimal suggesting about a half hour. 52 minutes should be about .87 hours

                From my end I am unable to verify the math that the VA uses when adding this flight to my total time. Am I getting credit for .52 hours or .87 hours?

                I hope this helps you figure out exactly whats going on.

                Marty Kovar

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by martypk View Post
                  Kalo:

                  Today I flew flight no. MSF1832 KCEC to KUKI and here are the results:

                  Real world time: 53 Minutes (start flight to stop flight)
                  kACARS time: 00:52 Note the colon indicating minutes
                  The Pirep shows: 00.52 Note the decimal suggesting about a half hour. 52 minutes should be about .87 hours

                  From my end I am unable to verify the math that the VA uses when adding this flight to my total time. Am I getting credit for .52 hours or .87 hours?

                  I hope this helps you figure out exactly whats going on.

                  Marty Kovar
                  The Pirep shows 00.52, but it has to be read as 00 hours 52 minutes, so it is a wrong expression to indicate it as 00.52, however, you are paid for 00:52 hrs equal 0.87 hrs. It's just the wrong writing in the VA/Pireps, but the math by the system is correct.

                  regards
                  falkensteiner
                  :angel: let 'em fly

                  Falkensteiner53@MSFlights.net

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by martypk View Post
                    Kalo:

                    Today I flew flight no. MSF1832 KCEC to KUKI and here are the results:

                    Real world time: 53 Minutes (start flight to stop flight)
                    kACARS time: 00:52 Note the colon indicating minutes
                    The Pirep shows: 00.52 Note the decimal suggesting about a half hour. 52 minutes should be about .87 hours

                    From my end I am unable to verify the math that the VA uses when adding this flight to my total time. Am I getting credit for .52 hours or .87 hours?

                    I hope this helps you figure out exactly whats going on.

                    Marty Kovar

                    Thanks Marty! This helped alot. In the admin panel (I attached a screenshot below), if you look at the Revenue: $385.36 area it looks like the software is paying you for ~30 minutes because: $664.54(tickets)-$227.20(fuel)-$52(pilot pay)=$385.36. As Waterman pointed out, this means your getting gypped for nearly 20 minutes!! BUT.......it seems that the software is actually applying the correct pilot pay even though it is showing the wrong Revenue amount in the admin panel! I checked your "Total Money" in the pilot center before and after I accepted this flight....and it added $86.70 to your wallet so that is correct. Since your flight time was 52 minutes...... 52min/60min=.867x100=$86.70


                    If you don't mind everyone knowing your salary here is a screenshot

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