Rudders

[Cesar82Pilot]

Hellow people!

I have a questions about rudders.

Why rudders respond so less in air compared to ground? I know that rudders controls operate nosewheel.

When you taxi it moves a lot, in the air barely, also I feel that they works too soft, i know that they wont make the plane turns at full speed, but at landings in crosswind i would like them to be more effective. Im not making an excuse of my bad landings haha, want to know if FSX values are prototypical and if not, how much to add. I know about the aircraft.cfg

I dont have pedals or jokes, I use a PS3 controller, the triggers are the ruders and left stick is my yoke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmdrYKIDbSQ

[Storm]

Rudder effectiveness is different for different aircraft, and the effectiveness varies with airspeed. This is true both in real life and in FSX.

The effectiveness of the rudder is determined by many things, including the size of the rudder, what angle it can turn to, the length and side area of the whole airplane, and also the size of the tail-fin that is not part of the rudder (because the rudder has to work against that stabilizing force).

In FSX the effectiveness of the rudder is configured in both the .air file and in the aircraft.cfg file. You can adjust these if you know what you're doing. However, if your aircraft is payware, you can hope that the developers used real figures and got it right!

If I remember correctly, you like to fly the B747. From my commercial simulator days, I seem to remember that its rudder authority at speed was not great - and didn't need to be. Because the moments of inertia of a 747 are so large, a crab-and-kick approach/land in heavy crosswinds might not always be advisable. Your video shows the pilot was still yawing with the aircraft's main gear on the ground. Some airlines prefer their pilots to do it differently, crabbing initially and then to switching to wing-down + opposite rudder (using rudder trim) on short finals.

Also check you have your Yaw Damper disengaged when you want to use the rudder like that! :eagerness:

[Cesar82Pilot]

Thanks Storm, i was curious, that means that is a realistic behavior, dont really have to modify at all.
I like big planes and thougth that the rudder had a bigger impact. The damper, mmm.

Oposite rudder and wing down? mmm sometimes i do like the pilot in the video use the rudder in the last moment to align, but that is in ILS landing, in visual, i do if im too left roll a bit to the right and rudder right, sometimes whorsening the situation.

There is more that i need to learn

Anyway, the White blank traslucen tires Howard is easier to land haha!

[Storm]

Yes you must switch off your Yaw Damper if you want to do a crab-and-kick crosswind landing!

The wing-down crosswind landing works by lowering one wing slightly, the wing closest to the direction the wind is coming from. The aircraft will then tend to slip sideways in the direction of the lower wing, and you can use this slip to counteract the crosswind. However, the aircraft will also want to turn in that direction, so you counteract that turn with opposite rudder. If you do it correctly, the overall effect is to keep you pointing right down the centerline, and you don't have to fly diagonally like you do with crab-and-kick. When you land, you will land on one wheel first (on the wing-down side).

There are advantages and disadvantages of the two systems:

* With crab-and-kick, the passengers are comfortable during crabbing on approach (since that's the natural way to fly anyway over long distances) but they experience a big swing at the last minute when you kick the yaw straight. And if you mistime the kick - which is VERY easy to do! - you will either land diagonally (kick too late) or you'll drift across the runway (kick too soon), either case putting sideways pressure on your landing gear which may cause damage on some aircraft. There's another problem too: when you kick out the yaw, the into-wind wing gets more lift and will rise, and the opposite wing may be close to scraping the ground, and you have to counter that.

* With wing-down, the passengers will feel a sideways falling (towards the lower wing) all the way through the approach, which may be uncomfortable or alarming. However you are always lined up and pointing in the right direction. You do have to ensure that the wing is not too low otherwise it will touch the ground at the last minute. And you have to make sure that the landing year on one side can take all your weight for a few moments. You can hold the constant rudder on your rudder trim, but you have to make sure it is zeroed as you land.

* There's a hybrid system: you start out with a crab approach, and you switch to wing-down only on short final. Effectively you are applying the kick part of the crab-and-kick before you get to the runway, so there is no danger of putting side-stress on your landing gear when you touch down. And you have time to sort out the rising into-wind wing before you get too close to the ground. Passengers will not feel uncomfortable till the end of the approach (where they will feel some discomfort anyway in either method).

When I learned to fly, in the 1980s, my instructor would only let me do crab-and-kick, whereas most commercial airline pilots I was working with at the time were using wing-down or hybrid. In FSX, you should try both to see the different effects and select the one that gives you the most reliable results. In real life, you should do what your instructor tells you to!

[Karl]

With regards to the rudders, I agree with Storm as to the realistic nature in FSX. I'd add that the effect is not neccassarily limited to large aircraft. I had an occasion to speak briefly with a F-16 pilot in the late 90's . In the F-16, the rudder has virtually no effect above 350 K.I.A.S. I explained how it was modeled in FSX and Falcon 4.0. He confirmed that the modeling was accurate in that respect.

Looking at crosswind approaches and landings, I found learning that to be a challenge. I considered what I was supposed to be doing and sometimes had a difficult time thinking my way through it as the flight conditions changed. When I started flying in real life, I found it surprisingly easy! It was easy because I wasn't thinking. I was simply flying. I was allowing all of my senses guide me instead of just my eyes on the gauges and windscreen. I understand the desire to fly big iron. But I think these mechanics are best learned using smaller, more responsive aircraft such as the Cessna's or almost any of the aircraft in Storm's Hangar.

Regardless of the aircraft, I find a good training exercise is to practice the same approach over and over. In single player, I set up approach with the conditions I want. 1-2 minutes before crossing the numbers, I save the flight (tap the ";" key.). After landing I hit "<CNTRL> ;" to restart the flight. Doing that 5-6 times improves responses to the same situation and future similar situations.

[Cesar82Pilot]

Thanks for your imput guyz!!!

Im trying too improove my skills. I love to see the crosswind landings videos!!

Didnt knew that you are a pilot Storm!

Thanks for the tip Karlh!

Now i have a better idea of what im doing wrong